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Author Topic: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????  (Read 305 times)

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fabr

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Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« on: October 08, 2017, 07:42:25 PM »
Ok maybe antifreeze. First day @ LS and I take blue buggy out for a spin. No issues. Cool! Next out is the quads,no issues. Cool! Jumo in new buggy,make a short trip to cowboy camp and back . No problems,rides the whoops at about 70 like driving down the highway. Cool. Cool. I pull plugs to check heat range/timing etc. All looks good. A bit rich but that will be dealt with with some quality time on the laptop and logging. ran pretty well actually. A couple hours later I fire it up to pull alongside trailer for the night. Big plume of antifreeze steam from right bank. Well,shit. The antifreeze is just dumping into #4 cylinder. Only thing I have ever seen dump that much water in a cylinder was welllllll,not good. I figure I blew the hell out of a head gasket even though this is the same engine I drag raced to death with no issues. WTH??? Load the shit up and come home Wednesday so I can get a jump on teardown.

Mind you,it is no easy task to pull the engine from this beast. Not looking forward to tearing down the engine either as it takes about 8 hours to do so. This isn't a garden variety SBC , takes 12+ hours to assemble. No joke. Anyway,I get it torn down to find---------------nothing obvious. Head/cylinder/gasket =perfect. The damn water had to come from somewhere. I'll pressure test head tomorrow.

A few pics to see what I saw. This is a bit baffling for sure at this point. Absolutely no obvious visible signs.
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fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 07:46:46 PM »
OH and I usually have bad luck that forestalls even worse bad luck. This was true this time ,again. If it wasn't for the water,I would not have found the worse issue in another cylinder. Apparently the JE pistons have the top ring groove too close to the intake valve relief. ANother issue found was the screens in the lifter valley that apparently had the epoxy go to hell. All in all,A water leak that can't be found at this point was a very good bit of good luck. 
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 07:49:18 PM »
Screens as found unattached in lifter valley. A shot of where they should have been.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 07:52:42 PM »
All springs must be remover before heads can be removed. A couple pics ,hard to see, but show why it takes so long to assemble/reassemble heads onto this engine.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 07:56:19 PM »
Cylinder 4
Head gasket,block side.
Gead gasket , head side.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 07:59:59 PM »
And THEN,this little bit of sunshine. JE Pistons place the top ring groove a bit too close to the intake valve relief. Oh well,As I said,even with bad luck I have hidden good luck-usually. This could have/would have been a LOT worse soon. Nothing a few $$$$$$ won't fix.  rofl
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 08:13:19 PM by fabr »
Logged

"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 08:32:20 PM »
pics of why valve springs must come off before head removal.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Carlriddle

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2017, 05:48:20 AM »
Sum Bitch!  The fix, throw more money! LOL Are those old pistons, or new?
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fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2017, 05:57:45 AM »
New.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Carlriddle

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2017, 08:00:29 AM »
Still weird where the water was coming from?  Was piston issue same side as steam, matbe a cracked in head.
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fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2017, 10:03:18 AM »
Adjacent cylinder. As much water as there was getting in as fast as it was,I doubt a cracked head. A casting inclusion broke out or something maybe .There was also no hits to the head from the piece that is missing. The missing piece fortunately exited immediately from the combustion chamber. The pieces ready to let go on each side of it might have beat things up some before exiting though.Looking closely at the pics shows the crack at each end of missing piece.It was imminent disaster just seconds away.  Pressure test tonight will determine if head is at fault. There are no obvious issues found at this point visually.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2017, 10:36:43 AM »
From first start up I had a weird black residue settle out of the engine oil after draining to the bottom of the drain pan. I'd never seen exactly the same looking residue ever before but chalked it up to the use of a "racing" oil filter. Racing means a pretty low efficiency filter media that allows much larger particles through. Anytime a dry sump is used and is a full flow through oil system with no bypass these types of filters are used. The residue apparently is/was some of that 15 or so years old epoxy holding the valley screens in place that was breaking down,going through oil pump and being ground into a powder that settles out in the oil tank as a black sludge.  Engine was coming apart for inspection this winter regardless but not this soon. Water is apparently my friend.It prevented total disaster happening.
Logged

"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

dsrace

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2017, 10:41:45 AM »
well only so many places can come from.......but that piston could`ve been horrible to that block. hate to say the coolant leak is a good thing but kind of is in this case. i assume you have used je pistons before and like them?
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fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2017, 10:51:55 AM »
I've not used anything but JE in my personal engines for 30+ years. Never an issue till now. I'll get it out and call JE. Never know,maybe they'll agree the valve reliefs are too close to the ring groove. There is only about .030 from back wall of groove to the valve relief. I'll have the new pistons made with the ring package about .050 lower from the crown.
Logged

"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2017, 10:54:34 AM »
Yup,only 3 places on this engine for water to come from,head/gasket/block. There is no water circulated through intake manifold on these engines.
Logged

"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)
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