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Author Topic: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves  (Read 518 times)

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fabr

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Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« on: December 27, 2016, 10:09:31 PM »
 Here is an explanation of what a Smart Valve is:
After having some problems with my EFI and an unexplained burndown I did a little research.

This may help some of you with EFIs with some unexplained running problems:

The Smart Valves are the filters in the tank only found on EFI sleds. These filters are nothing but 30-70 micron screens (depending on year) that have a spring loaded open/closed valve to prevent air from entering the EFI system, air in an EFI system can cause a lean condition and a burn down if it sucks any air. Carbs dont have that problem as are open systems, they have a float bowl that is vented and air can escape though the bowl vent if air is picked up from the tank hose. EFIs are closed systems.

There is a misconception that these wont let water pass through them. That is false. When they start to get plugged with gunk they will suck themselves shut and with starve the pump and kill the engine. I just had to check this so I put on in water and sucked on the hose and up comes the water. Hmmm.

Here is the product description from Walbro that makes them:

"Walbro in-tank pickups are great for fuel cells/tanks without internal baffles. They have 70 micron mesh that serve as a pre-filter. When the pickup is submerged in gas it draws through the mesh. The pickups hold small amount of gas when not submerged. When that small amount of gas is depleted the pickup will shut preventing the pump from sucking air. When the pickup becomes submerged again it will open to begin drawing gas again.

The pickups are usually run in quantities of 3 or 4 depending on the configuration. When there is a possibility of the fuel system being run completely dry, Walbro recommends running one pickup with a bleed in it.

The Walbro pickups have a 5/16" fitting on top. They are approximately 3" in diameter and 2" tall."

Here is a another description I found as well:

"These fuel pickups were originally developed for snowmobile applications, but they work great in rock-crawlers or in fuel tanks that don't have baffles. These are the same type of pick-ups that are in the Holley Universal In-Tank Mulit-Point Fuel Pick-up Kit [Holley part number 12-951 - two pickups per kit]. Walbro made those pickups for Holley.

The original Walbro pickups were the MP-10. Those were the pickups in the Holley kit, too. Those pickups had a 30 micron mesh. With fuel formula changes in recent years, the snowmobile manufacturers were noticing a type of goo building-up on the pickups. That goo was the new fuels reacting to the plastic fuel tanks. Walbro changed the mesh to 70 microns and there was no more buildup on the pickups. . The new part numbers are MP-12, MP-13, MP-14, MP-15, and MP-16.

How they work:
Have you ever sprayed water on a window screen? Recall that the screen will actually hold some of the water. These pickups work the same way. When the pickup is submerged in fuel, the fuel will pass through the mesh with ease. When fuel sloshes away from the pickup, the mesh will hold enough fuel to fill all the tiny holes. That mesh full of fuel acts like a solid. At this point, the pump, sucking on the pickup will cause the mesh to suck shut, preventing the pump from sucking air. When fuel covers the pickup once again, the valve will open up and transfer fuel.

Specifications:
These pick-ups have one or two 5/16 fittings. The pickups with two fittings can be used to connect pickups in series.

The inlet side of the pickup has a 70 micron mesh. The pickup is just under three inches in diameter and just under two inches tall. These pickups have been tested in gasoline to -40 F and in diesel fuel to 0 F. A single pickup can flow 40 gal per hour, so they work well with high-performance applications, too.

The Bleed Hole:
If your system has any posibiity of running completely dry, Walbro suggests that one pickup in the system should have a bleed hole. If your system doesn't have a bleed hole, it can become totally closed if all of the pickups close at once. If that happens, the closed pickups can take many minutes to re-open, depending upon how much vacuum the fuel pump has pulled. In extreme cases, you may have to open your fuel tank and remove a fuel line to break that vacuum.

The bleed hole is a very small hole in the disc that shuts-off the fuel flow. Runing a system with more than one bleed hole is not necessary or recommended. Since the bleed hole is a hole, a small amount of air will enter your fuel supply when that pickup is exposed. It is a necessary evil if there is a risk of running out of fuel. Place the pickup with the bleed hole in the position that will see fuel as long as possible. If your system will never run out of fuel, it is best to install pickups that do not have bleed holes.

The number of pickups you should install depends on the shape and orientation of your tank. You obviously need more than one pickup, because if you only have one, and it closes-up, you're done! Place the pickups in the extreme corners of your tank. That should give you access to the most fuel.

Installation:
Since rubber hose rated for in-tank use is so expensive, many folks are using hard lines to the pickups. Pieces of copper tubing or brake line can be bent and run between connections. That reduces the need for in-tank hose to only a couple inches at each pickup or other connections. A hard line will also help keep the pickups in place and help weigh them down so the stay in the bottom of the tank.

Note:
If the fuel pickups are completely dry at startup, the pump will suck air. The pickups won't close unless they have been initially immersed in fuel [the mesh is wet]."

If you have an EFI sled pull them and either replace or clean them from time to time. They come apart and use some carb cleaner and spray back through them to clean them. I had a burn down last year and it wouldnt run very good this year until I figured out it was these darn Smart Valves. I found that the line from the closest Smart Valve to the pump was not tight and was sucking some air, and I found the front Smart Valve was stuck shut and the rear one was working randomly. Im glad I found this problem as Im sure I was going to lose another piston/cylinder again this year if I didnt.

I cleaned mine and was amazed at how much crud was in the glass jar after taking them apart and spraying them from the inside out. The sled runs great now. On a side note, I replaced the hoses attached to the filters/Smart Valves and when I looked in the suction end of the pump there was a wad of crud in there too, so give the pump suction a look too. The pump has a screen just up from the suction nipple.

The biggest giveaway is the pump will squeal just before the sled dies is one of the symptoms of plugged or closed valves.
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dsrace

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 08:57:21 PM »
didn't even know there was a smart valve in the system! great info
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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 08:58:08 PM »
if i make a new cell some day i will be using one of those pick ups
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fabr

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2016, 09:12:02 PM »
You use 2 or more of them in a series or tee'd together. I'd be using them roght now if they were e85 friendly. I'm wondering what they are made of. Walbro says they are good with e10 so I don't really see why they would not tolerate e85. Trying to verify one way or the other.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 09:13:44 PM by fabr »
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 10:02:49 PM »
i've just used the stock screen that came with the busa pump.  also been reading up on fuel systems a bit. watched this video from fuel lab few days ago so interesting you posted this.


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dP6Pogm6Ts0&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/dP6Pogm6Ts0&rel=0</a>
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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2016, 10:06:46 PM »
i know my diesel has something that looks like this in my tank.
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BDKW1

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2016, 02:03:20 PM »
i've just used the stock screen that came with the busa pump.  also been reading up on fuel systems a bit. watched this video from fuel lab few days ago so interesting you posted this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP6Pogm6Ts0

If you have foam in the tank, that is not an issue.
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Lance-W

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2016, 04:13:34 PM »
A very good friend of mine builds aftermarket fuel systems.  He uses them on some of his applications that are used in a high-G cornering environment to keep the pump from starving.

(You might recognize the CAD work  ;D  )

https://www.vaporworx.com/documentation/
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fabr

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2016, 06:37:42 PM »
Would you possibly ask him e85 compatible? I can't verify.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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Lance-W

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2016, 08:02:49 PM »
Would you possibly ask him e85 compatible? I can't verify.

I will ask now.
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fabr

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2016, 08:07:16 PM »
Thanks,Lance!
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein

Lance-W

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2016, 08:19:01 PM »
From CarlC (he's a member here and I sent him a PM but we'll see)

"They are all plastic so I think so, Walbro will know for sure but that won't happen until Tuesday"
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fabr

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2016, 09:23:25 PM »
I would think so also but the walbro site says e10 and gas. I'm thinking if it is ok with e10 it should be fine in e85. If they are I'm going to mod my tank with 2-3 of them. Hell of a lot cheaper than hydramat and will not suck every last drop like hydramat but,,,,,,,,,,,,do I really need to pull the last drop? Not for over $600 to get a proper sized hydramat for my tank!!!
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein

fabr

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2017, 08:02:34 AM »
Lance,I don't suppose your friend got an answer from Walbro did he?
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein

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Re: Walbro MP-14 Smart Valves
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2017, 02:46:26 PM »
Gents,

Getting ahold of the right person at TI is tough for us little guys. I've got the VP of the distributor where I purchase these from on it. He knows they are good for E10 and thought TI was testing for E85.
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