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Author Topic: Circuit Breaker WTH???????  (Read 1179 times)

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fabr

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Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« on: July 28, 2015, 06:41:22 PM »
1994 Chevy Kodiak toter.Factory uses no fuses,all circuit breakers.Fine,I like that. However,I've been trying to track down an issue with the heat/AC blower motor shutting down since I bought it.

AC/heat works fantastic on low and medium but blower shuts down on high after a few minutes. Replaced blower,traced the entire wiring circuit,pulled the fricken dash all apart to do so and check for a short or anything that could be causing the issue. Did running amp checks many times .

On high it pulls approx 20 amps as it should.Circuit is protected by a 30 amp circuit breaker. Should be no issue there but I found that circuit breaker was the one causing the issue by tripping early. These are the weird ass UCB size breakers that are just slightly narrower than the standard ATO size breaker. I go to town Sunday and all I can find is the ATO size breaker. WTH, can make a couple jumpers to get it to at least work to check this crap out. Viola , the thing didn't shut down-at all. So I figure I was right and it was just a faulty breaker.

 Monday ,off to the parts store to get the correct breaker. No problem,in stock. I go home,install it and the damn thing trips after only a couple minutes. OK,FINE,SOB!!!!!!!! I grab a 30 amp fuse and the thing runs without issue. For the last 3 hours anyway.

 I was always of the impression a circuit breaker of 30 amp capacity should run right up to 30 +-amps before tripping. WTH?!?!?!??!!! I never dreamed the breaker itself was the issue and could only handle 20 amps even though it was a 30 amp breaker. Is this just a UCB breaker thing since the standard ATO breaker worked just fine? Or was I just unlucky enough to get a bad replacement breaker?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 06:59:47 PM by fabr »
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Yummi

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 07:32:15 PM »
I tried some super sleuth searches.  What year is the mini baller rig?
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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 08:00:09 PM »
I tried some super sleuth searches.  What year is the mini baller rig?

Never mind it is a 94.
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fabr

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 08:27:41 PM »
Ya,it's almost an antique. Only had 70K on it when I got it. Around 85 now. Still a good rig and didn't cost a fortune.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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Lance-W

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2015, 09:01:55 PM »
Maybe it surges past 30 when it cycles on/off and ya need one of those slow blow breaker thingies?  Does the picture on the diagram look even slightly different than the ones around it?
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Yummi

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2015, 09:52:32 PM »
You replaced blower motor, so that is out.  There is a chaffing issue on Kodiaks but several model years away. 

Is it possible that something is heating up from draw and then shorting?  I have no idea what it would be, just trying to think as to what would trigger it. 
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Nutz4sand

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2015, 03:58:18 AM »
As these circuit breakers are made they make them by the thousands and with piss poor quality control (it happens even in good shops) they could have gotten the wrong guts or defective parts inside that "proper 30 amp" circuit breaker.

The replacement could EASILY be from the same batch made at the same time.

That said you could try the 'proper" circuit breaker in a test bed on a bench to see how many amps it REALLY deals with before it trips out.
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fabr

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2015, 05:37:49 AM »
Maybe it surges past 30 when it cycles on/off and ya need one of those slow blow breaker thingies?  Does the picture on the diagram look even slightly different than the ones around it?
I pulled the breaker and put a jumper in it's place and then used a clamp on amp meter on the jumper to see running amps in real time. It never pulls over 22 amps at the fuse panel.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2015, 05:40:55 AM »
You replaced blower motor, so that is out.  There is a chaffing issue on Kodiaks but several model years away. 

Is it possible that something is heating up from draw and then shorting?  I have no idea what it would be, just trying to think as to what would trigger it.
Blower motor is usually the culprit in these situations. Next is a shorting wire as you suggest. Entire dash has been taken apart to get access to the entire circuit from fuse block to blower. No damage anywhere along the circuit. We're thinking along the same lines but ,nope.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2015, 05:52:33 AM »
As these circuit breakers are made they make them by the thousands and with piss poor quality control (it happens even in good shops) they could have gotten the wrong guts or defective parts inside that "proper 30 amp" circuit breaker.

The replacement could EASILY be from the same batch made at the same time.

That said you could try the 'proper" circuit breaker in a test bed on a bench to see how many amps it REALLY deals with before it trips out.
I agree. I replaced the new 30 amp breaker that trips just like the factory original  with a 30 amp fuse last night and it did not blow . Going to get another breaker and see if it trips out like the other new one did.  Only reason I can think of is due to a faulty new breaker. Just my luck . Think I'll rig a jumper with the breaker in it so I can measure amp draw when it trips out. That should determine if it is an under capacity(faulty) breaker or if there is a different issue . I'm thinking there is no way for the 30 amp fuse to live if there is some transient amp draw tripping the breaker yet not blowing the fuse. I mean,if the fuse doesn't blow,the circuit breaker should not either.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Carlriddle

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2015, 06:40:44 AM »
Does it have a capacitor for motor?
Id try a diff brand of breaker if I could.  Maybe some elec grease on terminals where breaker snaps in.

Thought it might have a  low voltage draw, 11v or so, causeing amps to spike and trip it. 
Or put a slow blow 30 fuse in there and call it.
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fabr

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2015, 07:35:48 AM »
Does it have a capacitor for motor?
Id try a diff brand of breaker if I could.  Maybe some elec grease on terminals where breaker snaps in.

Thought it might have a  low voltage draw, 11v or so, causeing amps to spike and trip it. 
Or put a slow blow 30 fuse in there and call it.
No capicitors. No alternative for the breaker. I'm stumped as to why the breaker trips but the fuse wll not blow.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Carlriddle

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2015, 08:24:15 AM »
Is there another breaker in box same size you could try?
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Lance-W

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2015, 08:28:16 AM »
No capacitors. No alternative for the breaker. I'm stumped as to why the breaker trips but the fuse will not blow.

This all says spike to me.  The fuses are slow to react compared to a breaker.  Much slower.  Keep in mind we're talking milliseconds difference here.....   Which is why you might not even visually see the spike on your meter?
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Yummi

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Re: Circuit Breaker WTH???????
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2015, 09:40:05 AM »
Problem. Solved.


No need to thank me. 
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Did you know I have a blog?  Come on now, it is 2016, everybody does.  http://www.jeepingwithdogs.com
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