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Author Topic: Fire and the Horrible Costs  (Read 1925 times)

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fabr

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Fire and the Horrible Costs
« on: November 27, 2013, 08:43:17 AM »
Over the last few months I have read about the guys in "Glamis" that have been very,very badly burned while enjoying OUR sport. It's just sickening to say the least. I have been wishy-washy about the fuel system like all the rest of us. We normally cheap out on the tanks. I mean ,after all,a tank just needs to hold gas. It doesn't need to be fancy. It doesn't need to be very well mounted. It just holds gas ............right??????? No, it holds our future . If it fails ,the results are catastrophic. Fuel cells are very expensive,many times a cell will cost more than any other component in a build. Only you can answer whether or not it is worth it. As for me,I don't want to be on GD or here being wished well in my recovery ......or worse. I've made up my mind. I'd rather be broke than burned. I'm doing true fuel cells in this current build. It's only money and I can't take it with me.

 ***** Best wishes for the 2 involved in the crash/fire @ Glamis a couple days ago.    http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=297682      If they set a fund up,please help with whatever you can.   
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

WelderPat

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2013, 09:37:05 AM »
If you can't afford to build it safe you can't afford to build it.
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fabr

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 11:57:20 AM »
Sadly,it takes some time for that to sink in for many of us,myself included. Even though I always build with safety in mind (even to the extreme at times)I have failed miserably to fully appreciate the risk I have taken for so many years.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2013, 11:59:14 AM »
Unfortunately ,the driver has passed away. Shit.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 09:48:18 AM »
One other thing we do not do but should,install seat belt cutters within reach of EACH occupant for the times that something doesn't release as it should. Velcro them to the inside of the body panels.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 09:54:47 AM by fabr »
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fastcorvairs

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2013, 08:16:23 AM »
One other thing we do not do but should,install seat belt cutters within reach of EACH occupant for the times that something doesn't release as it should. Velcro them to the inside of the body panels.

On my Christmas list.  Told every one I wanted two so I can put one on both sides of the car's interior panels. It mite not be a bad idea to Velcro on to the bottom of the car somewhere that would be protected from getting rubbed off. That way if your upside down some one can get to it faster.   This has been a bad year  for car's burning in the dunes.  first Geoff's car and Then a side by side the next week. 

All you sand loving fool's be sure to go over to the other sand site and put your order in for a flag and stickers in Geoff's memory.  They will read (It's what we do)  That is what Geoff told a person just before his accident. 
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If I believe I cannot do something it makes me incapable of doing it. But when I believe that I can, then I acquire the ability to do it , even if I didn't have it at the beginning.

WelderPat

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2013, 10:18:38 AM »
Velcro them to the belts with a contrasting color Velcro.
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sandycrack

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2013, 04:22:43 PM »
So I have questions.  For my fuel tank I have an all aluminium tank no bladder or baffles with 2 straps to secure it.  I have seen this type used mostly and is why I had it built.  That does not mean it is what I need, but just what I have.  Looking on line there is an array of different styles some with baffles and some with bladders.  This is the only pic I have at the moment. Opinions please?
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fabr

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2013, 04:43:08 PM »
Baffles control fuel sloshing. Baffles are used in tanks without bladders to control fuel and hopefully keep the pump pick up covered with fuel. Bladder tanks will sometimes have small"catch tanks" inside them to keep fuel around the pickup to prevent cavitation since baffles are impractical in a bladder type cell.
  In general there are 3 types of "fuel cell". The plain tank like you have,not really a cell at all just like the plain poly tanks are not true fuel cells. Next there is the aluminum or steel can with a PEX inner tank. Pex is a very tough ,heat/fire resistant plastic. A cell like that is far better than a simple tank. However it is not nearly as safe as a true bladder type of cell. To further add to any confusion ,there are several different types of bladders also. Most are for hydrocarbon(gas)only and the most expensive are usable with E85 or even E100.
Logged

"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

BDKW1

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2013, 05:58:07 PM »
Most of the tank failures I have seen have come from something going through the tank in a crash. Bladders are much more puncture resistant. I have been in several race car crashes where the fuel cell can was breached but the bladder held up.
 
2010 Baja 1000
 

 
Was in a Trophy light crash in January, went end over end a few times. Spare tire crushed the Jaz cell in half. Didn't leak a drop much to My suppries. I had always thought of Jaz as a pretty bottom of the shelf cell, but it did it's job.
 
Most of the sand rails in the Doom's have a power to weight ratio that a race car can only dream of yet have almost zero saftey equipment. What is your life worth? It's like the old motorcycle saying, cheap helmet, cheap head................
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fabr

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2013, 09:55:11 PM »
+1!!!!!!
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Carlriddle

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2013, 09:50:50 AM »
Another issue Ive seen with you plain alum tank are the welded on mount tabs. When bolted down and some twisting occurs then you now have a leaks.

Fire suppression systems are not too pricey, I will be adding an extinguisher at the bare minimum.
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sandycrack

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2013, 11:27:44 AM »
Mine doesn't have tabs it has straps that anchor it down?  I am looking at the space I have and trying not to have a custom tank/cell made.  Not sure I can avoid it.
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fabr

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2013, 11:38:29 AM »
I'm in the same dilema. And I have need for 2 tanks,one each side of the engine. Double the expense. Crap.
Logged

"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

fabr

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Re: Fire and the Horrible Costs
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2013, 11:47:48 AM »
Welded tabs are not really an issue if you mount it on resilient rubber or springs that are incorporated into the mount. This is just a ready pic I have as an example.
Logged

"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)
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