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Author Topic: New Intake Pics  (Read 5290 times)

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MC

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New Intake Pics
« on: March 02, 2013, 07:18:21 PM »
Haven't had time to work on getting the new ZX14 motor up and running on my car but I did just get the stacks back from anodize. Will have 50 lids back from laser next week. Thinking I might have done the stacks in gold and left the lid and base plate black? Color contrast?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 07:20:28 PM by MC »
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fabr

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 10:25:32 PM »
50? Nice work!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 10:31:35 PM by masterfabr »
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MC

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 11:24:21 PM »
Yes I have been selling intakes to the short track race crowd and you have to do 50 lids at a time to get a buy on anodize and laser. This is the first of this seasons build and the first dozen are already sold, you would be amazed at the performance increase.
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fabr

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 11:46:36 PM »
I see. Do you do busas? If so do you use long and short stacks?
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein

MC

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2013, 01:59:09 AM »
Hayabusas yes, the spread is different but the stacks would be the same as pictured.

Staggered stack length no. The long and short setup makes for a smooth dyno graph and I can see that being good for riding a bike thru the hills but for the type of motorsports we are doing you want all cylinders giving maximum effort. Like I said you would be amazed at how much harder they will pull.   
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fabr

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2013, 07:45:38 AM »
Do you have dyno charts to verify that? Not all duning or trail riding is at WOT. It would be nice to compare the graphs.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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dsrace

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2013, 10:35:10 AM »
it would be nice if you had some graphs to post up. i only ask because i have been playing with the factory rubber stacks on my busa in my rail. I just for ease, bought another set of stock stacks and removed the 2 short ones and added the 2 tall ones so they were now all 4 tall. once i did this the snap of the throttle was gone and ran a little rich at idle, dropped my take off power. I do have the bazzaz auto tune as well but it doesn't tune below 3k rpm. now i decided to take it back apart and replace all 4 tall with 4 short. this was interesting because you could now watch the pre cleaner sucked up tight to the oval air filter like a vacuum sealed package where you couldn't before (or no where as extreme) with 4 tall or stock sizes. the 4 short did bring back 90% of the throttle response and it cleaned up idle but then moved the rich spot up a few rpm. so then I removed them yet again and replaced them back to stock lengths, 2 tall in the middle and 2 short on the outsides. throttle response back and cleaned up a/r at idle. I talked to a busa builder and he said the busa flows about as good as it gets stock. stacks would only help top end performance where the 2 short and 2 tall add bottom end but more mid and that would be lost with 4 tall or shifted to top end. he told me that aside from a turbo the only way to get more bottom and mid with stacks ( in his opinion ) was to change throttle bodies, head work , inj's and fuel pump for a significant increase. I want more bottom and mid ( for my sand rail app) and would rarely use top end.   this is why ask if you have some graphs to see where it makes the improvement and when? not knocking them because i know the factory rubber ones are hardly the same, just asking cause if they do it would be a good buy.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 10:41:31 AM by Dsrace »
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MC

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2013, 12:36:03 PM »
The whole purpose of tuning with a longer intake track is to make a broader HP and Torque curve not to narrow it up to try a get a couple on top. You shorten to do that. Yes we have done quite a bit of dyno work to get where we are although there has never been any tuning done to try and make the best dyno run possible. Thats not what I was interested in, just wanting to see what changes to length, diameter, and bell shape would do. A general rule is these things go very lean in the mid-range with longer stacks on. Thats what this graph shows, where the power dips its going very lean. I have only had one customer who would tell me what their dyno results were after a full tune with a power commander, no one wants to share. He was able to gain 10 HP and 13 FT LBS of torque over his stock CBR 1000 intake. Most customers run 5LBS additional fuel pressure over stock and are very happy but to get the optimum you have to do a full tune with the intake.
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MC

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2013, 12:39:20 PM »
I should add that this is a ZX10 motor dyno graph with a short track intake, again no tuning was done.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 01:08:59 PM by MC »
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dsrace

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2013, 04:55:11 PM »
good info thanks
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fabr

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2013, 06:31:43 PM »
Just curious,does a zx10 run the same fuel/timing maps on all 4 cylinders? A busa has considerably different maps for the center cylinders as compared to the outer.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein

MC

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2013, 07:14:23 PM »
No idea as I dont do tuning however with the liter motors it would be fair to say they are more highly evolved then the bigger motors. They make incredible HP and do so by turning 2 to 3 thousand more RPMs but lack the bottom end and mid-range power of the bigger motors. Nothings free. The short track intakes are designed to race from 8000 RPM to redline. On the bigger motors I can run a longer stack then the short track intakes and pick up the power much more then the dyno results above because of the motors turning less RPM. All the newer liter motors run staggered length runners but no one making an aftermarket intake for short track racing does if thats where you are going.
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fabr

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2013, 07:41:15 PM »
I don't race these things. I'm a buggy /desert(soon) guy. I'm not in need of an intake since I'm turbo'ed. If I were though I'd be looking for a set of stacks with short /long lengths as there is a need for as much torque as possible down low. Would you be able to supple such if requested by someone? Your stacks look fantastic  BTW and I'm sure they perform well for your purpose. Thanks for posting the info. fabr
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein

fabr

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2013, 07:47:52 PM »
Actually they are top notch craftsmanship. Extremely well done.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein

MC

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Re: New Intake Pics
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2013, 08:23:31 PM »
The staggered stack length is NOT to build more peak HP or more low end grunt if you will, its to smooth out the power curve. All motors when you run them on the dyno will have peaks and valleys, its part of the deal. The staggered length is to help smooth the peaks and valleys, thats really all they do. Thats what the guy that did the dyno work told me before he ever did anything for me. We dynoed every combo from 2" to 7" long and three different diameters including staggered in all lenghts from 2" to 7" and it does help smooth the power curve but never gave more peak or more grunt. The 2" stacks gave the most peak. A set of 7" stacks with a smaller dia gave a huge increase in low end and mid range power at a bit of expense to peak. Again this was on a liter motor that turns alot more RPM then a Busa, thats a big factor.
NA or Turbo makes no difference to intake tuning, its all the same whether its your turbo Busa or your wifes daily driver or a F1 car. The same principals apply to all.

Generally  I don't sell just the stacks but if you get to the point where you want to do something let me know, of course their not cheap.LOL..

Back in the early 90s I worked for Nissans NPTI and one of the things I built was their intakes. A 25 million dollar per year budget and alot of very smart people, even a dumb ass welder like me could can learn a thing or two if they paid attention.

Heres a pic of the first intake I made to test on a buggy back in early 08. No tuning just met the guy at Glamis, blew his mind.

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